The development team always responds that traffic is what they hear from people who oppose the project. They conveniently leave out the near unanimous opposition to height. Why? It's a PR move. Because the development team can come up with studies and improvements that make it look like traffic is mitigated. They can do nothing to eliminate the height issues. Make no mistake, the proposed 12 story building is related to traffic obviously. But even if they miraculously come up with a plan to mitigate traffic, this project should not see the light of day until they take that offensive 12 story building out. After all of the feedback from the community and the Lennar debacle (which had SHORTER buildings) it is insulting that they even proposed it.

Do you think they would even be proposing it if they didn't know that they already have the support of the Turd From The Third?

He didn't support the Lennar version so I'm doubting he's in the bag for this one at least at this point.

Bancap's Steve Conoly was the Co-Chair of DeLong's election committee per the below link.

http://garydelong.com/advisorycmte.asp

When DeLong created his secret SEADIP committee, only Conoly's son Chip was invited to discuss Hotel building.

And now guess what, Chip Conoly has already been selected by the developer to be the Hotel builder at 2nd and PCH. Nobody else was allowed to bid on the project.

Still doubt DeLong is in the bag, if not multiple bags?

Speaking of who is in the bag, why would Gene Rotondo, the President of the Belmont Shore Business Association be speaking publicly in support of the 2nd & PCH development? How can it possibly help Belmont Shore businesses to have so much new competition built a mile down the road?

It may not help Belmont Shore businesses, but a Legends II at this location would certainly help Mr. Rotondo.

Regardless of what you might think of Chip Conley (and I'm certainly not defending the connection to De Long), Joie de Vivre knows how to do hotels right.

I have no feelings one way or the other about Chip Conley. I've never met or heard him speak. I suspect he represents a fine hotel company. However, the political ties between DeLong and his father garner suspicion. Especially if the developer selected Chip Conley's company and his father's influence to sway DeLong to support the project, as it so appears.

I can guarantee you he won't make a stand one way or another until AFTER the 3rd District City Council election next year!

DeLong once said of the Lennar project that "if the traffic can't be 100% mitigated I will not support it." I asked him straight up a while back if he will hold the new project to the same standard and he waffled and weaseled out of it by saying "I will do whatever I think the good people of the 3rd district seem to want."

Yeah . . . sure . . .

Please pardon my ignorance regarding the Lennar project. How long ago was that project proposed? And, how many stories tall was it proposed to be?

The Project was proposed in 2005 and they officially withdrew their application in 2007.

The max building height was proposed to be 5 stories (68 feet), as identified in the EIR.

Thank you very much!

An extremely reliable source tells me that the current developers claim that their proposed project cannot possibly be made to "pencil out" if it were reduced to "only" 8 stories.

Is there any building height that you are aware of that community has indicated it would support?

I have talked to many that would support this if the tower was reduced to 6 stories and the remaining building were 3. If they need a 12 story building to pencil out they should walk away now. Obviously they are full of it.

It is a common developer ploy to ask for twice as much as you want and need. In this case, the developer is asking for one 12-story building and two 6-story buildings he knows he can't get. He will be happy to get exactly what you said, a 6-story building and two 3-story buildings.

Strange. I got the distinct impression that the Lennar proposal was generally regarded as being "too tall".

It was. But I think specifically it was because the whole thing was tall if I recall including one tall building not set very far back from the 2nd/pch intersection.

But the members of the Los Cerritos Wetlands Study Group, Stop Home Depot, and University Park Estates were told of it early in 2004 as community outreach began.

We formed the LCWSG in response to 3 proposals, The Marina Shores Mall over the Pumpkin Patch, Home Depot, and Lennar.

The founder of the group reveiwed all 3 NOP's, and called every person contacted, ever agency, and every relevant commenter to help form a consensus of opinion, assemble the Public Rezoning Panel, and study the issues.

Early on we called for a Moratorium, as did a leading environmental Law Frim, Chatten Brown Associates, at the time, and a Master Plan, and Master EIR.

Several prior Councilpersons had studied these issues closely, and added their support in this study, and review.

A Top Law Firm in this area tipped off the Founder late in 2003 that big plans were being discussed out East.

Why don't you ask Art Levine about that. A couple months ago, Mr. Levine asked Councilman DeLong for a show of hands at his monthly 3rd District Neighborhood Association meeting whether the attendees approved of the 2nd & PCH project or not. DeLong looked uncomfortable and responded to Mr. Levin whether he really wanted to do that since all of the information was not available yet.

Mr. Levine told DeLong, "Everyone already knows what 12-stories looks like. Why not ask for a show of hands for the people who want a 12-story development." DeLong refused to do so and quickly changed the subject.

Is DeLong in the bag? ABSOLUTELY. However, the EIR won't come before City Council until after April's city council election. Until then, DeLong's public position will be that he is still studying it and hasn't made a decision.

Everybody knows that the Coastal People were a key part of stopping Lennar, along with the SEADIP Panelists from 2004-6, and others.

DeLong merely did what he could for the Developer, they could not make it fly, he watched us kill that idea as he set up his close campaign supporters son inside his secret rezoning Committee to get an exclusive right to the new Hotel Piece...

This is a well know chuckle to the gang. He tried to pull a fast one and got popped by the Coastal friends having an honest broker or two inside.

You forget, his secret, failed WADIP rezoning attempt added huge density like this all along PCH and Marina Drive, 7 stories here, 7 stories there.

That's why we call him Marina Del Rey DeLong.

A Conflict of Interest should be disclosed, and full disclosure is appropriate, and a recusal from further consideration of this matter

Everybody inside knows that.

And this idea would have never gone for 1 1/2 years without DeLongs support....please....check you facts. Ask Staff.

Be a realist. If anything is not desired by a sitting Councilperson, it is DOA.

A Buddy deal makes us all look bad, especially when you claim to be a Free Market Capitalist that allows the best investor, not the chumiest, win ?

Where is the unfettered free market ? Where was competitive bidding? Where is the sale to the highest bidder ? Ooops...that happened when DeLong raised 50,000 approximately, at his first coffee, in 2005.

Just doin' what they hired me to do...........quite ineffectually.

Thus far, all he has done is embarrass these guys, and percipitate losing Law Suits or other such filings.

We need a change, and a level playing field for all.

Too funny !! The turd is the word !!


LOL ''We need to flush the turd from the third ''

His tenure has been absurd !

Word !!

There may be the need for an enema before the final flush!

And a size 13 Cowboy boot suppository. Field goal style ...

I think the proponents for Second and PCH made an admirable
showing at the Wilson Community meeting on November 16th.
This was due to the fact,that Carl Kemp has set up a "Friends for"Second and PCH," site, and enlisted aid from both realtors and insurance brokers,who have much to gain if this massive project goes forward. Many of them were in attendance on Monday,and not necessarily from the city of Long Beach! Brillant Carl!

But,it was a tremendous joke on those that turned out for a true
Community Meeting,hoping to voice their concerns and receive answers from the project's Development Team. That was not to be.

Instead, we were divided into groups of 10-12 people with a facilitator; the facilitator, who answered no questions and in some cases had little knowledge of the project, took notes on our opinions regarding certain aspects of the project. All facilitators used the same questions.

This device worked beautifully; we learned nothing new, but did get to argue with tablemates.
And the Planning Department? They can say they conducted a Community meeting. Just as they said two weeks ago that they conducted a scoping meeting. Neither is true.
Bottom line--they really don't care what the community thinks. This project is going forward for the entitlements. And as Cliff Ratkovich stated Monday..."we are going for a development agreement."

The Naples Island Association is very well respected, and very powerful. They rarely take positions except on big issues that have significant quality of life concerns for their residents and lifestyle.

Last night at the City Staffed post NOP public meetings, the crowd was overwhelming large, and quite vocally opposed to this idea on a wide range of grounds. The yelling got so persistant, and heated, we were waiting for chairs to get thrown in a few cases.

Poor Staff looked run through the meat grinder......they were just doing their job.

The Naple NIA Residents Association was in our group. Quoting Stan Poe and others; " After careful consideration, and serious thought, our Board, and it's members UNANIMOUSLY OPPOSE this idea.'' A range of grounds were stated. Then Mr Poe continued..'' We have a very engaged and vocal group, if anybody opposes our position, believe me, we hear about it'' '' Not one email has contradicted this position'' '' This is rare, and unusual''.

It is important to recall that Naples was the birthplace of Save Our Bay, where many opposed the 4 story idea over the marine building, 5,500 people, they also were focal to the Wetlands addition to the Selick Mall, and opposed Home Depot, and raised similar Lennar concerns.

Hopefully they realize that ther Councilman has been looking away fro friends again......if he opposed thsi, it would have never got off the ground.

His opponent has opposed it since inception, and filed a Legal Memo to that effect. Mr Jensen was going to meet with the proponents then opine, last we heard.

Thanks NIA.....you are wonderful.

After the Lennar battle, after Planning voted, the head guy told a key coastal dude....'' We would be happy to get HALF.....or their 2 stories over Commercial....past Coastal''. We have witnesses.

Craig Beck lamented that he has to add about 220,000 units to Long Beach, or something?

Good luck in and around the Wetlands, Naples, or other concerned areas.

Maybe we can create Pier K......add a bunch of Landfill downtown.....and build a huge enclave?? But seriously....Why does Long Beach have to add such huge density? Huntington Beach isn't? Nor is Seal Beach, Sunset Beach, Laguna ??

A concerned Coastal Advocate gave Mr Wielenga some very important facts this morning, and major opponent to this idea just went on the record last night.

A large, important, broadly based, highly influential and very powerful group issued a statement.

Awesome Dave tells a much better story.