The Daily Briefing

TENSIONS HIGH AT 2ND+PCH MEETING

 

[EDITOR’S NOTE: Heather Altman, an environmental consultant and local activist, monitors the intersection of nature and politics---not sure if that’s the nature of politics or the politics of nature---in her blog, www.egretsnotregrets.com. Altman gave us permission to publish this account of the Monday night (Nov. 16) community meeting on the proposed Second-and-PCH multiuse project held at Wilson High school.]

The evening seemed to start off tame enough, but then about half hour in, tensions rose. And I could totally see why.

Jeff Winklepleck, the City’s point person for this project, began to introduce the process for the “breakout sessions,” and things started trending south. People seemed to have objection with the breakout sessions, preferring instead to have a “group discussion” wherein questions could be asked/answered in real time. Questions about impacts and the like.

Craig Beck, Director Department of Development Services, intervened and further attempted to explain the environmental regulatory process and how “we just aren’t there yet” with regards to having a discussion of impacts…that it is too soon in the process, and that discussion transpires with the Environmental Impact Report (EIR).

He is absolutely right. Both Mr. Winklepleck and Mr. Beck did their level best to try and explain that a discussion of impacts is simply just too premature. Couldn’t agree more.

However, there is a fundamental disconnnect between where this project is in the environmental regulatory process and the information distributed by the Second + PCH development team at this community meeting and the scoping meeting (and also posted on their website).

At the City’s meeting tonight, “we” were provided an “information packet” from the Second + PCH developers that listed several statements about project impacts (or seeming lack thereof). No data. No analysis. Just statements.

For example, in the table entitled “Change to Traffic Flow with Mitigations,” it shows that with the project and mitigation, traffic at the intersection of PCH/Second will decrease by 1% in the AM peak, increase by 7% in the PM peak and increase by 12% in the Saturday peak periods. That’s it…no supporting data, no defining variables, no identification of mitigation, etc.

With that information in hand, the public had (and has) questions. And I think that’s fair. I mean, when I walk into a meeting, am handed this information and read that traffic mitigation exists which could reduce impacts, I want to know about the mitigation. When I read that “there will be NO negative impacts on the wetlands” (emphasis theirs), I want to know what tools were used in that analysis.

Those (and others) are valid questions that the public wants to ask…but we can’t because it is “too soon.”

But as it is too soon to ask the questions, it is similarly premature for the Second + PCH team to be distributing/posting the information, especially in the absence of any supporting documentation.

Granted, the Second + PCH team has every right to distribute/post this information, but I believe that doing so at this early stage only serves to facilitate a breakdown in the public communication process, as was evidenced tonight. I believe that the Second + PCH team needs to respect where we are in the environmental process and let the City/EIR consultants do their job. It is the responsibility of the latter to identify and address potential impacts at this stage, not the job of the development team.

Should the Second + PCH team continue to publicly distribute/make available this “impact” information before the release of the EIR, I believe that the public process will continue to devolve as questions about the distributed information will inevitably persist….and the questions will continue to go unanswered.

We (the public, the City and the development team) should be striving for as “pure” of a public communication process as possible, not introducing materials which serve to hinder it. (And that goes for “both sides”)

  • FLASH
    A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rule and a calculator..


    At a morning press conference, the Attorney General said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-Gebra movement.

    He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. 'Al-Gebra is a problem for us', the Attorney General said. 'They derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute values.' They use secret code names like 'X' and 'Y' and refer to
    themselves as 'unknowns', but we have determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country.

    As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, 'There are 3 sides to every triangle'.

    When asked to comment on the arrest, President Obama said, 'If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, he would have given us more fingers and toes.'
    White House aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement by the President.
    It is believed that the Nobel Prize for Physiques will follow----


    Hmmm Makes more sense than some of the stuff around here..??
  • Guest
    RETURN MY PERSONAL PROPERTY TO ME.
  • Chief Povunga
    Said the Indians claiming the Wetlands by tribal right....???
  • I am still trying to figure out how anyone thinks traffic will be 1% LESS in the morning if this happens?????????

    That sounds like BS.
  • Spin Spin Spin
    Wow.....there are lies, and damned lies, and Developer spin......to those who were there, does this thank you from the Applicants sound honest ?

    This proves that they are liars, plain and simple, because this summation clearly misstates the true facts.

    And what about the exclusive Naples Improvement Association stating ...we unanimously oppose this ?

    The team mailed the well wishers this;




    Friends:
    > As you know, on Monday evening the City of Long Beach held a community
    > meeting at Wilson High School to review the plans for our proposed
    > development at 2nd and PCH. More than 100 people attended the meeting,
    > many, perhaps most of them in support of the project and our vision to
    > rejuvenate that neglected corner.
    >
    > You are one of these supporters, and we want to take a moment to thank you
    > for attending the meeting, writing a letter, bringing friends or talking
    > to neighbors about the benefits this project can bring to the City. All
    > of these things are critical to the success of the project and all are
    > needed as the review process goes forward.
    >
    > As we expected, some members of the community who attended are opposed
    > to the project. Several of them, we believe, were determined to derail
    > the discussion rather than engage in a constructive dialog about the
    > potential benefits of the project. In our view, the best way to deal
    > with the negativity is to involve good people who want an open
    > discussion, progress for the City, and a project for 2nd and PCH that
    > will succeed on every level.
    >
    > Thank you again for your support. It is greatly appreciated and truly
    > valued.
    >
    > Sincerely,
    > Cliff Ratkovich
    > David Malmuth
  • Mike Ruehle
    MOST were in support, SOME were opposed. Interesting developer spin.

    That's similar to when the developer's lobbyist was conducting meetings at various resident and business associations in other parts of the city. He told the various audiences that Belmont Shore residents supported the project, despite outspoken opposition at the two BSRA meetings they conducted in Belmont Shore and hand polls and BSRA surveys that both indicated residents were opposed to the 12-story project and the traffic impacts.

    It appears their mantra is to repeat over and over again that everyone loves 2nd & PCH until someone actually believes it.
  • Guest
    RETURN MY PERSONAL PROPERTY TO ME.
  • Venus Retrograde
    Sounds fun !!
  • Dwight K Snider
    Citizen Journalist Quote of Day – Question Authority

    “Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities — the political, the religious, the educational authorities — who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing — forming in our minds — their view of reality.

    “To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself.”

    (Source: Timothy Leary - “How to Operate Your Brain”)
  • JoeWeinstein
    A classic balanced viewpoint on this project includes concerns of environment, economics, urban life quality and urban planning process. From that viewpoint, the topics and concerns aired in comments here are ALL apropos: including wetlands, traffic, building heights, economical development, densities, variances, EIRS, mitigations, information, etc etc.

    HOWEVER, it's 2009. Atmospheric CO2 is 390 ppm and rising fast.

    No matter what happens in detail in this project's development (or not), the basic result in a few decades is unaltered:

    2d&PCH - along with LB's entire low-lying Lower East Side (including LC Wetlands, Peninsula, Naples, Belmont Shore, and lower SG Rio) and for that matter LB's Lower West Side (along and up the LA Rio) will all be SUBTIDAL - and on the way to being permanently SUBMARINE.

    All thanks to sea-level rise from climate change owing to massive world-wide greenhouse gas emissions from carbon fuels combustion, in large part due to massive goods production and global goods movement, of the sort being massively promoted by trend-setting big players like the Port of Long Beach.

    On paper, the rate of these emissions might be precautionarily eventually reduced by a Copenhagen treaty next month, but de facto PoLB and other big industry and enterprise players are sabotaging timely action against climate change.

    So, while most comments here are all worked up about the development process and a few decades of impacts FROM the 2d & PCH project, the abiding impact will be that of nature ON the project and indeed on everything anywhere near it.

    The big challenge to everyone who has any serious economic or other personal stake in this project is to comprehend that its 'life cycle' time horizon is very finite. (And ditto for even long-existing structures and places throughout LB's Lower East Side.)

    The developers themselves, and all those who buy into their project (as indeed all those with any interest in now-existing stuff in LB's Lower East Side) face the challenge of making their moolah and getting out while the gettin's good.

    At some point, the only takers will be truly dim-witted suckers.
    Such as the LB City Council majority, with a penchant for giving (excuse me, ‘swapping’) away Public Service Yards in order to acquire Lower East Side land.
  • Gordana
    Reality-check the goofball prose and incendiary adjectives, please. I attended this meeting too and I have to tell ya' that Heather's version of events perfectly captures the tone of the meeting and audience frustration. I didn't know quite what to expect but it's clear that the city's Development Services folks are new at this kind of approach to community input - and it showed. My group was ably 'facilitated' by Jill Griffiths and although we all clearly had differing opinions on the project, it was always respectful. Let's see what the city learned from this go-round and hope they're truly listening to the community.
  • kathyplus4
    Highhat:

    A nice small boutique hotel would be nice, except the visitors would have to look across at that blight, called by many a wetlands. What should happen is to make Dean beautify his wetlands by removing some of the debris, fencing it off and planting trees to block the view, until such time someone actually does something with the property. Until that happens; I can't imagine anyone building something high end enough to be able to limit the size and scope of the project, and at the same time produce sufficient income.

    Long Beach has a long ways to go to start acting like Laguna Beach; however, your idea is good, but probably not feasible.

    Yes, I do think it is time to put the cards on the table. How many years should this drag on?
  • DWR
    Guests at a small boutique hotel on the site won't be able to see much of the wetlands "blight" from their rooms because the view is already mostly screened by scenic shopping centers, charming generic chain restaurants, a bucolic gas station and a picture-postcard, traffic-choked intersection.
  • Janis Populi
    In ten years, the property owners of 6400 E PCH will have the opportunity to turn 2nd & PCH into something that is five times as ugly and dilapidated as Seaport Marina. If the current property owners of the Seaport Marina had any taste or neighborly pride they would not allow their property to be a blighted eyesore. The owners are greedy slum landlords and should not be allowed any variances. No wonder they have to hide behind lobbyists, developers, corrupt cronies and faux second rate cultural arty farts from CSULB.

    ...CSULB pays no property tax and for 60 years has not mitigated ANY of the traffic impacts from their massive growth. CSULB has an NOP at city hall to put two gigantic parking structures (over 2,000 spaces) on Bellflower and 7th. The City has been secretly negotiating "Supreme Court 2006 Marina Decision" mitigation without ANY public input. When the Council voted to contribute over over a $100,000 for "security" lights on Bellflower, the public was not told that CSULB's contribution was Marina mititgation for traffic impacts. A month ago, CSULB tried to run a bus down Eliot next to people's houses as mitigation for even more growth. CSULB even supported the failed PressTelegram project downtown. No wonder that pretentious CSULB woman with the put on "theatrical" voice never bother to stay and listen to what the community wants.

    Anyway...the owners seem to think that if they can make the Seaport Marina hotel as ugly and dilapidated as possible they can fool the public in to thinking that their new property is going to be this beautiful shining entryway. What's with the external ducts, ghetto paint scheme, plastic dolphins with torn vinyl banners, mis-spelled words and vinyl Inco advertising for other failing properties on the hotel monument sign?
  • lbresident
    You're speaking with too much common sense.
  • kathyplus4
    I understand trying to be environmental friendly to the 2nd Street/PCH project. I have lived near the intersection of the planned development for over 20 years, so there are a few things that bother me.

    1.) would someone please come up with a plan where the owner can make money to put something on that delapidated piece of property that is environmentally friendly? Wouldn't it be good to know how much profit the developer expects a year to be successful, instead of this endless game being played out? It is a waste of everyones time, unless that matter is settled first. The developer then knows his limitations and the environmentalist can move on to another project. Long Beach doesn't need anymore failed projects or empty buildings.

    2.) if traffic, lights and noise disturb the habitat, what restrictions were there in place when In-N-Out was built?

    3.) PCH in Huntington Beach, along the westlands, is quite busy; how has the habitat survived with all the traffic and lights from vehicles.

    4.) How many who object so vehemetly to a project going in on PCH and Second street ever believed in 'shovel ready projects' as a job creator? If you were beating the drums for the stimulus package and then fight for years against any project a property owners wants to build, then it is your responsibilitiy to lay out a profitable, environmentally friendly, development plan. You don't get to keep throwing out objections. If the environmentalist have laid out plans in the past, could someone please tell us what they were?
  • HighHat
    Are you SERIOUS? Why on earth would ANYONE bother to propose improvements to this property when NOBODY involved with the project has any reason or need to listen? I think a nice small (100-125 room) high end hotel with beautiful grounds and a couple of nice restaurants and a handful of support businesses would be a wonderful addition to our community. But it's obvious that NOBODY on the project gives a DAMN what I think!

    Question: How is ANY developer supposed to know what the "limits" are to any project unless they try to push through their dream proposal? Are the planning commission and the city council now supposed to publicly telegraph in ADVANCE what they would or would not approve? Same for the Coastal Commission?

    And by the way, the lights from passing cars aren't the issue, it's the huge canopy of light thrown off by a gigantic development.
  • lbresident
    The wetlands are a red herring and distraction and are irrelevant regarding this project. What is relevant and why this project should not move forward is traffic and building heights. You don't get to implement gridlock and change the nature of our community with ridiculously high towers. Until this development team stops playing games they will not have any material community support.
  • On the Macro
    How wrong you are again Mr resident. Nothing is more destructive to a Welands than elevated light sources, noise,density,adjacent traffic,pedestrian load,encouraging mass access, or placing obstacles along the well established, and protected Pacific Flyway. Merely adding lamp standards can be very challenging adjacent to very sensitive habitat.

    But there are a range of serious zoning questions, land use concerns, master plan concerns, and variance concerns.

    Any attempt to justify such variances requires a long and problematic Statement of Overriding Considerations, or ideas, to do harm, or cause problems, that are deemed justifiable for the planned use. It is thisbalncing act which has been the huge problem out East as the area grew with too much deferred, promised, but never funded Mitigation. Thus the 7 or so Level of Service F intersections for example.

    This lot is along a primary Coastal Access Route for the entire state, coast route 1. Many vexing Coastal issues are part of this puzzle.

    The residents have been solicited at great length and dpth over recent years. About 94% of the area sample, in the many thousands, fully support Wetlands restoration, remediation, preservation and conservation.

    The state of the title is not really the issue with the wetlands because a range of laws have protected them for many decades, along with advocates, and activists.

    We need to make a choice, Wetlands as the planning priority, or Marina De Rey as the precedent for new project one, with many more to follow.

    Since the 50s, the high density downtown, and the Port problem, were offset, and counterbalanced by a low rise, suburban, low density area out East.

    There is no cry from the Neighborhoods to change this, nor dramatically upsize the height and density limitations?

    This is all about the City seeking revenue, and a politician looking out for his buddies.

    And blatant disrespect for the well established Master Plan, community desire, and a range of reasonable laws.

    If DeRong loses next April, watch this scheme die a quiet death.

    If he gets re elected.....get ready for more litigation, and hassle, and acrimony. The sitting Councilman has a Degree in upsetting his constituents !!

    Excellent work as always Ms Altman. You are an asset to your community.

    Dear DW.....When does Mike Ruehle get his guest column ? Mike the Spike might do a very interesting guest piece too ?? Give him a camera guy and assign him a 'Man in the street piece''.

    How about a Jay Leno take off a la ''What my beef ?''
  • lbresident
    Of all the posters you are easily the most myopic and in the top three for potentially being crazy. That said, while our motivations are not 100% aligned our desired outcome on this is so best of luck.
  • On the Macro
    Says you old man. Check out our win loss ratio and tell us all what is your claim to fame ? What have you done to help your community ? Neighbors ? Friends? Associates ?

    Oh Right....you got the loser award from the DW last year ? Top 10 least likely to be employed or something ?

    if sanity is the issue, check yourself tough guy.

    What you know about Wetlands Conservation, Coastal Law, Civil Law, Land Use Regulations, or SEADIP could fill a Right Wing thimble.

    You supposedly live in Naples? Why don't you write a Thank You letter to NIA for standing up to be counted rather than impotently carp at the people attempting to do their share of the heavy lifting ?.

    Your narrow minded drivel is barely worth reading, and increasing less worth responding too.

    Ask the posters here about the narrowness of your perspective.?

    Then again, don't. We're done Res. If you filed a Memo, let's see it.
  • lbresident
    If you only knew.
  • wrongbeachjohn
    I know. You don't have one original clue in your empty top cavity.
  • Guest
    RETURN MY PERSONAL PROPERTY TO ME.
  • On the Macro
    Hey Res, let's define a Red Herring as a wholly irrelevant issue, and what's say your Attorneys, solidify and agreement with our Attorneys, and say, we wager 50,000 $ that the Wetlands impacts ARE relevant to this planned development?

    Are you game big guy ?
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