Ummmm.... I was with you until that sideswipe against affordable housing. That's perhaps the one saving grace of that downtown calamity.

Look, it shouldn't be this difficult to come up with viable businesses for Pine Avenue and the surrounding areas. We need to take advantage of our singularity as a funky real city as well as the largest port in America. We should be overflowing with ideas and people clamoring to take advantage of it.

If I can come up with these ideas on my lunch hour, surely paid business professionals can come up with better ideas, no? In fact, can someone cc people who can run with these ideas like Bob Foster, Suja Lowenthal, Brian Ulazewski, the Head of the Business Department at CSULB, and does anyone know the names or addresses of the big shipping companies? I'm semi-serious. Okay, here goes:

1) First Stop in America Store presented by Olde Good Things Inc. The finest and first of antiques from Asia and beyond delivered fresh weekly to our store in Long Beach. Be the first to get these one of a kind items before anyone else sees them. New shipments to our store arrive every Friday night. BUT if they don't sell we load them back up and send them off to Los Angeles and beyond to sell for inflated prices.

2) "Our Finest Illegal Booty" presented by US Customs. We seize them on your behalf! Ever wondered what happens to all those shipments of illegal goods? After we throw the guys in jail, we sell their stuff....to you...at rock bottom prices! Where else can you pick up these quality of goods at these prices? Just looking at the crazy things your drug money will buy is worth the price of admission. And let's face it, they're just down the street at the port, even if items come from the Tijuana border, etc.

3) The Ship Container Store presented by China Shipping (or whoever). I love this idea so much I wish I had the funds to do it. Okay, we have all that empty land around Long Beach, why not fill it with shipping containers full of stuff "fresh from the ships?" It could be sold as cheaper than you'll ever find it anywhere else in America because you don't have to pay for Transportation. It doesn't even matter if it's true, just that people believe it. This would sell itself. Arrive early on Saturday morning and watch the trucks filled with new containers set up shop in the largest shipping store in the world. Drink your coffee while you watch the cranes move the containers into the "store." Be there at 9:00 when the shipping containers are open. You never know what you'll find!

If I was Bob Foster or Suja, I'd make a pronouncement to all the shipping companies that if they set up retail shops downtown, they will get a 1% discount on their port rent for every 10000 square feet of retail space they fill. Why not? I'm sure it's against all sorts of regulations, but it would get people talking. We'd probably only need three shipping companies to make it really work. And if we could get one from China, one from India, and one from Europe. Well, there you go.

4) Slow Boat To China presented by a Consortium of Brand Name Businesses (we're not authorized to mention). Ever wonder what happens to all that stuff they can't sell in America? After one or two seasons, they box it up and ship it off to China and Vietnam to be practically given away. Before we do that, why not pay a pittance to get last season's stuff? You'd be amazed at the things that are available..and more amazed at the prices.

I'm curious to know how much tax revenue would be generated for our city if all the empty storefronts in this area were occupied by thriving businesses. Would be enough to balance the city's budget?

Andy wrote,"Unfortunately, we are faced with a financial situation that makes it impractical (at least in the minds of right-thinking people) to offer the kinds of economic incentives that larger retailers demand and we've got a national and local economy that's not conducive to opening new stores at this time."

I disagree. Over the past year, in downtown San Francisco, retailers such as Barney's, Bloomingdales, Prada, Dior, etc., have opened stores in the Union Square area. Perhaps a new article should be titled," What Other Cities Do Right, And Long Beach Does Wrong."

I didn't write that.

My mistake. Sorry about that. It was Scott.

Uh, if they opened in the past year, the planning for them started probably three years before their opening and, thus, would be based on different economic projections from what would be developed today.

And that means that today's problems with Long Beach reflect mistakes and omissions of long standing. In other words, Mr. Zeiden's experience with the city of not having his calls returned is likely a datum in a long string of neglect by personnel asleep at the switch. We ought not be surprised, but unfortunately I doubt that anyone in the city will care.

Just what we need.. a bunch of additional souless shoebox architecture in downtown LB. Way to go RDA and city council.

I loved that store--but isn't this so symptomatic with what is wrong with Long Beach?
Required online reading should be "Redevelopment: The Unknown Government"
What a wake up call!
And confused! The Long Beach Redevelopment Agency was founded in 1961, and legally,
Redevelopment Agencies are suppose to sunset after 40 years. It's mandatory; but where are the teeth in this law? Perhaps the public is ignorant of what redevelopment does and how it operates--it's driven primarily by creating new revenue by using debt and sales tax.
Redevelopment has the exclusive use of all increases in property tax revenues--so why would anyone vote for Foster's $571 infrastructure bond? One can dream of what we could do (without Redevelopment) with all the restored property taxes.

Oh, and by the way, if things aren't bad enough now, the RDA is currently negotiating to buy all the properties on the block bordered by Broadway/Pine/Pacific/4th for (you guessed it) more apartment boxes with retail first floor.

Gold's Gym, which is the ONLY thing drawing folks above Broadway (now that George's is moving south)...will soon be gone.

Don't be surprised when the block occupied by Z Gallerie goes the same way.

Andy, the RDA already owns everything there except where the building where Gold's resides.

I was just reading the minutes from this week's RDA meeting (all the "under negtiation: price and terms of acquisition" look like they're buying them)

Conference with Real Property Negotiator pursuant to Government Code
§54956.8 (RFP for Mixed-Use Development at 3rd Street and Pacific Avenue).
APN: 7280-016-002
Property Address: 345 N. Pine Avenue
Agency Negotiator: Craig Beck, Executive Director
Negotiating Parties: Redevelopment Agency, City of Long Beach and
DeCarion Living Trust
Under Negotiation: Price and Terms of Acquisition

APN: 7280-016-005
Property Address: 337 Pine Avenue
Agency Negotiator: Craig Beck, Executive Director
Negotiating Parties: Redevelopment Agency, City of Long Beach and Praket
Lertkulvanich Trust
Under Negotiation: Price and Terms of Acquisition

APN: 7280-016-007
Property Address: 327 Pine Avenue
Agency Negotiator: Craig Beck, Executive Director
Negotiating Parties: Redevelopment Agency, City of Long Beach and Fred
and Gail Leonard Trust
Under Negotiation: Price and Terms of Acquisition

APN: 7280-016-900, -901, -902, -903, -904, -905 and -908
Property Address: Address unavailable (-901), 338 Pacific Avenue, 328
Pacific Avenue, 131 W. 3rd Street, 125 W. 3rd Street, 309
Pine Avenue
Agency Negotiator: Craig Beck, Executive Director
Negotiating Parties: Redevelopment Agency, City of Long Beach
Under Negotiation: Price and Terms of Acquisition

APN: 7280-016-014
Property Address: 315 Pine Avenue
Agency Negotiator: Craig Beck, Executive Director
Negotiating Parties: Redevelopment Agency, City of Long Beach and Rose
Mizrahi Trust
Under Negotiation: Price and Terms of Acquisition

APN: 7280-016-011, -012, -013 and -016
Property Address: 117 W. 3rd Street, 325 Pine Avenue, 319 Pine Avenue,
301 Pine Avenue
Agency Negotiator: Craig Beck, Executive Director
Negotiating Parties: Redevelopment Agency, City of Long Beach and Pine
Pacific Land, LLC
Under Negotiation: Price and Terms of Acquisition

Sad news, indeed, Andy. It seems apparent that RDA doesn't actually improve much of what it touches and that's a very big and critical block of property to give to them. The first floor retail of City Place (on the Pine Avenue side) and the Walker Building have not proven to be very attractive or productive. So they're apparently going to take this flawed model to a more extreme breadth. The vast amount of property that RDA has acquired, not just downtown, but throughout Long Beach, gives me the impression that Long Beach has become a company town, in the sense of when a company would own the entire town as the infrastructure support for its operations. Unfortunately, there simply is no real infrastructure in Long Beach.

I might just start leaning toward supporting the governor's idea to tap into redevelopment funds as one part of dealing with the state budget deficit--not because I think it's a good idea for addressing a fiscal problem, but because it may be the only way we have to rein in the redevelopment juggernaut.

Geez this news is depressing. The only good news I see is that many different minds are thinking about the problem. It's rare when I agree with the points of view of all of the posters thus far.

I would like to raise one thought though - I used to shop at the Z Gallerie all the time when they had the outlet upstairs. I'm not sure why it moved and I'd love to know why, but I think the idea of it could be good for Pine Avenue. How can we turn it into a place to get a good deal on quality upscale and midscale products? In a way, the, um, funkiness of Pine Avenue might even lend itself to this sort of venture. I'd love to shop for "last season's" goods at a Restoration Hardware or Crate and Barrel clearinghouses.

But anyway, I don't understand why RDA money in Long Beach isn't spent on buying up those godawful crackerbox apartment buildings and replacing them with upscale-ish duplexes? That's what Long Beach continues to need, and occasionally gets - a feel of upward mobility.

And lastly, who on earth isn't returning the phone calls of the Z Gallerie owner? That employee needs to be fired, NOT be getting a raise from Bob Foster and company.

There used to be a Crate N Barrel outlet that left. As well as Bath and Body Works. I thought these stores were great!
I work in an office two blocks from Pine and 3rd. I love being able to walk to the restaurants and what not on my lunch hour. Perhaps less emphasis should be placed on the "quality" of the resident living in the area and some consideration should be paid to the fact that many mid- class/affluent folks work right in the area of discussion.
Walking down Pine Ave at lunch hour could be a real joy if I were able to accomplish my errands on foot. For example, why isn't there a decent Hallmark or giftshop on Pine? Why not a quickie drop-in Nail Salon that also offers brow and facial waxes? A couple decent clothing boutiques? A decent shoe store? A cell phone store? A frame shop? Why must I drive down to somewhere on Broadway or Second to get these tasks accomplished?
Pine Ave has so much potential. It's sad to see the decent retailers leave.
The RDA shouldn't build anymore "mixed use retail" until LB can fill the storefronts we already have.
And BTW, I don't go to the Pike, so I don't think it's responsible for the demise of Pine Ave. Something else is going on...I smell the RDA.

Dave, that is a really good idea. I love it actually. Downtown has a ways to go before it brings in Nordstrom, but a bunch of name brand outlets would be excellent. And actually the rest of Long Beach would like drive down there for that sort of thing as well. You should send that idea to DBLA or whoever it is that could do something about it.

Two points to the well-written comments here:

1) While the Pike is not particularly "retail" competitive with the rest of Pine Street, it did suck up a tremendous amount of RDA and city resources to develop and maintain, and likely reduced the availability of resources for encouraging businesses to locate and stay N of 3rd Street.

2) The housing being built, whether designated as "affordable" or not, is not the type of housing that will attract southern California families who are income qualified above minimum levels. Developers want to cram as many units as possible (and have gotten variances to get smaller minimum sq footage) resulting in de facto "affordable" housing. A friend of mine wanted a place with a small backyard, like a townhome, which is a housing variation that has been totally ignored downtown. She moved to Lakewood.

And yes, City Place is definitely as walled as its predecessor, thanks to the fortressess of boxy apartments surrounding it.

The problems with Pine Avenue retail are myriad, and Juan is right that The Pike is not particularly among them. In fact, The Pike is pretty much a black hole for retail, as is Shoreline Village. One major problem is that Pine Avenue has not been able to achieve the critical mass grouping of stores that makes it an attractive destination. Plus, many of the stores have exited the corridor over the years. And it's difficult for almost any retail store to sustain on its own (hence strip malls, shopping centers,and quaint revitalized downtown centers).

Moreover, Pine Avenue lacks the kind of anchor store that nowadays seems to be essential to any shopping area. That is apparently supposed to be the role Wal-Mart plays in City Place. Seems that it might have actually worked inasmuch as it seems to primarily draw shoppers seeking necessities at bargain prices. And so the effect carries over to the rest of City Place. There is no comparable magnet for Pine Avenue. (And we can't expect that City Place, which is as walled off despite its open design as the Long Beach Plaza Mall was, to positively affect Pine Avenue. I would argue that City Place primarily draws from the lower income areas north of its location and that a virtual wall exists at Third Street that keeps all but the most diligent panhandlers from venturing south into the Pine corridor.)

Affordable housing, however, has definitely not been a factor in the newest demise of Pine Avenue. I understand that the RDA actually allowed putting off some of the required affordable portions of new developments and instead has clustered them--away from the Pine Avenue area. What we see is the clustered "workforce housing" with specific developments like Olive Court, Puerto del Sol, and Pacific City Lights. None of these is in enough proximity to Pine Avenue to have an impact on the retail environment there--although it's likely that residents in these developments would go to the Wal-Mart simply because it's the closest Wal-Mart. Indeed, RDA has through its support for these developments ensured that certain parts of the city are permanently defined (if not officially, then tacitly) as low income areas.

The new housing developments downtown, then, should by definition be the ones that will attract the kinds of consumers that would patronize upscale retail, which Pine Avenue lacks and will continue to lack.

It will take some attractive anchor store to once again serve as the pioneer for Pine Avenue, much as John Morris did for the restaurant business there. It will take Downtown Long Beach Associates or some similar entity to undertake an aggressive retail recruitment campaign to develop that critical mass of shops and stores that will make a shopping trip to Pine Avenue both attractive and worthwhile.

Unfortunately, we are faced with a financial situation that makes it impractical (at least in the minds of right-thinking people) to offer the kinds of economic incentives that larger retailers demand and we've got a national and local economy that's not conducive to opening new stores at this time.

In other news, the RDA issues a Press Release announcing the availability of Pine Ave retail space for smoke shops, astrology readers, and botanicas. RDA director Craig Beck announces, "we couldn't be more delighted that we can now raze the buildings on this block for more tiny apartments and 300 sq. ft. retail spaces."

Pathetic. I own a house downtown...where's my subsidy? Oh wait, it's gonna be a parcel tax.

Please, please tell me one thing the RDA has done right.

Blaming the Pike isn't accurate. If this were the case, wouldn't The Pike be fully leased with many high-end retail shops to select from? That project is overloaded with restaurants. The primary reason, for Pine Ave.'s failure, is the city's inability to transform that particular area into a mecca of activity for locals & tourists to enjoy. A tremendous opportunity, became available when the first downtown mall was sold. Rather than apply successful principles, that have worked in other downtown urban centers, city officials settled for a suburban shopping center anchored by Walmart. That's what destroyed the great potential of Pine Ave. It did nothing to change the demographics of the area, and subsequently gave the retailers on Pine the stimulus they needed to say, "Hey, we're out of here." There is nothing synergistic between ZGallerie and Walmart. Mr. Zeiden's store (s) in San Francisco and many other locations, are tremendous. Leave it to Long Beach to screw this one up. So, what else is new?

Juan and I finally agree on something. The Pike is not the problem. The problem is that stupid walmart and the city's insistence on subsidized / affordable housing.

Blaming the Pike isn't accurate. If this were the case, wouldn't The Pike be fully leased with many high-end retail shops to select from? That project is overloaded with restaurants. The primary reason, for Pine Ave.'s failure, is the city's inability to transform that particular area into a mecca of activity for locals & tourists to enjoy. A tremendous opportunity, became available when the first downtown mall was sold. Rather than apply successful principles, that have worked in other downtown urban centers, city officials settled for a suburban shopping center anchored by Walmart. That's what destroyed the great potential of Pine Ave. It did nothing to change the demographics of the area, and subsequently gave the retailers on Pine the stimulus they needed to say, "Hey, we're out of here." There is nothing synergistic between ZGallerie and Walmart. Mr. Zeiden's store (s) in San Francisco and many other locations, are tremendous. Leave it to Long Beach to screw this one up. So, what else is new?